And I answer it differently every single time. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. So I went fully down the rabbit hole. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. Not because it was brand new data. And in his book [? #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian So Pompeii and its environs at the time were called [SPEAKING GREEK], which means great Greece. I took this to Greg [? So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? Which, if you think about it, is a very elegant idea. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. I'm happy to argue about that. And when I started to get closer into the historical period-- this is all prehistory. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. I fully expect we will find it. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Let's move to early Christian. An actual spiked wine. And so that's what motivated my search here. But it survives. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. So thank you, all who have hung with us. Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog Well, the reason I mention Hippolytus and Marcus and focus on that in my evidence is because there's evidence of the Valentinians, who influenced Marcus, in and around Rome. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. I expect there will be. It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? No one lived there. First I'll give the floor to Brian to walk us into this remarkable book of his and the years of hard work that went into it, what drove him to do this. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. Is there a smoking gun? Here's the proof of concept. That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. I would expect we'd have ample evidence. I'm happy to be proven wrong. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. There were formula. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? That's all just fancy wordplay. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. I want to thank you for putting up with me and my questions. Do the drugs, Dr. Stang? All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? So again, that's February 22. Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. Well, wonderful. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. These Native American church and the UDV, both some syncretic form of Christianity. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. So how to put this? Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? This is true. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. So that's from Burkert, a very sober scholar and the dean of all scholarship on Greek religion. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. Theories of Origins about Witch Hunts - King's College In the same place in and around Pompeii, this is where Christianity is really finding its roots. And I've listened to the volunteers who've gone through these experiences. I'm not. That they were what you call extreme beverages. Please materialize. That's staying within the field of time. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. So frankly, what happens during the Neolithic, we don't know, at least from a scientific vantage. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. That's the big question. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . That is, by giving, by even floating the possibility of this kind of-- at times, what seems like a Dan Brown sort of story, like, oh my god, there's a whole history of Christianity that's been suppressed-- draws attention, but the real point is actually that you're not really certain about the story, but you're certain is that we need to be more attentive to this evidence and to assess it soberly. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. "Pagan" and "Christian" Marriage: The State of the Question 101. And they found this site, along with others around the Mediterranean. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. Not in every single case, obviously. And then at some point they go inland. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. The kind of mysticism I've always been attracted to, like the rule of Saint Benedict and the Trappist monks and the Cistercian monks. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. We still have almost 700 with us. But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. Now, I mentioned that Brian and I had become friends. I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. And Brian, it would be helpful for me to know whether you are more interested in questions that take up the ancient world or more that deal with this last issue, the sort of contemporary and the future. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. Nazanin Boniadi Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. So there's a house preserved outside of Pompeii, preserved, like so much else, under the ash of Mount Vesuvius's eruption in the year 79 of the Common Era. And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? Now, Carl Ruck from Boston University, much closer to home, however, took that invitation and tried to pursue this hypothesis. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. He has talked about the potential evidence for psychedelics in a Mithras liturgy. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? : r/AskHistorians - reddit This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. When you start testing, you find things. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact CHARLES STANG: All right. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. I know that that's a loaded phrase. So I think this was a minority of early Christians. So why refrain? But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. So it is already happening. The question is, what will happen in the future. And I feel like I accomplished that in the afterword to my book. . For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. Many people see that as symbolic or allegorical or just a nice thing, which is not the case. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. It's arguably not the case in the third century. And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. And I got to say, there's not a heck of a lot of eye rolling, assuming people read my afterword and try to see how careful I am about delineating what is knowable and what is not and what this means for the future of religion. And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. I'm not sure where it falls. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. That is my dog Xena. She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. CHARLES STANG: OK, great. Video: Psychedelics: The Ancient Religion with No Name? Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . PDF The continuity between pagan and Christian cult - Scandinavia I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. Ep #1 Show Notes | Brian Muraresku: Psychedelics, Civilization And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. Leonardo Torres Pagan, PhD - Subject Matter Expert & Editor - LinkedIn What Brian labels the religion with no name. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - TopPodcast This is all secret. A lot of Christianity, as you rightly point out, I mean, it was an Eastern phenomenon, all over the eastern Mediterranean. And so that opened a question for me. Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. It's not the case in the second century. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? The Immortality Key: Book Overview (Brian Muraresku) So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. And you're right. It was it was barley, water, and something else. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line.
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